Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Who's the best
Tue, April 19, 2005 - 4:33 PMThats an interesting topic. Are we limiting ourselves to only the Milesian's and their descendants or are we considering the entirety of all the races that have called Ireland home? To make it more interesting we likely should consider from all of them. And if so..... I don't know about the rest of you but, I'm really going to have think about that one! -
-
Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Tue, April 19, 2005 - 4:38 PMAll of them. As long as they were a hero. Also, everyone should be able to back up their arguement as to why. That should make it even more interesting. -
-
Re: Who's the best
Tue, April 19, 2005 - 6:56 PMOk, I'll start off then. I think (even though I'm a huge fan of the friends Cuchulain and Ferdia who was within a hair of the former for prowess) that Finn MacCool would be the greatest hero in Irish history. For not only his abilities martial...he was a great leader of the Fianna, an accomplished seer, musician and story teller as well.
Most of the other heros I could have mentioned did not have the same range of abilty nor cultural dimmension As Finn MacCool did.
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Wed, April 20, 2005 - 10:54 AMThe first books I read about Irish Mythology were Ancient Irish Tales, and Lady Gregory's Irish Myths & Legends. Later I read Thomas Kinsella's translation of The Tain and Lady Gregory's Cuchulain of Muirthemne.
While I enjoy reading the stories of Finn MacCumhal and the Fianna, Cuchulain is still my favorite. To me his story epitomizes Irish heroics. I enjoy his youth and vigor, and although his life was short he accomplished feats beyond that of any regular man. My close second is Lugh, I love the stories "The Sons of Tuireann" and "The Great Battle of Magh Tuireadh". -
-
Re: Who's the best
Wed, April 20, 2005 - 11:23 AMAs far as who I think was the best, I have to grudgingly say Cuchulain. I say grudgingly becasue he is such an obious choice I think. I could list all the reasons but Eibhlin pretty much summed them up. He is by no means my favorite though, for that I would have to be a 3 way tie between The Dagda (He did many great things and became "great" because of one) Fionn MacCumhail because he was flawed, and Scatha because she trained Cuchulain and was a warrior woman. ::Shrugs:: Just my 2 cents.
-
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Wed, April 27, 2005 - 3:50 PMI think anyone who knows me or has seen my profile knows my answer. CUCHULAIN.
He was a hero in every since of the word. He was the undisputed best of all the men of Erin. He was loved by all the women for his looks and charm. There was never a doubt in his loyality to his king even when his king broke his oath. He was feared as much as he was respected. He was angered when someone defamed his name, his people, his country or king but never over the attention of a women.
Finn may have been a leader of men and leader of the Fianna (who did defend Ireland, I'll give them that) but Cuchulain was the sole defender of his country. Cuchulain was a destroier of armies. Finn killed men by the hundreds, Cuchulain killed by the tens of thousands.
I also like the fact that Cuchulain represented the best of dominant races to in habit Ireland up to that point. His Father (Lugh) being half Tuatha De Danna, half Formorian, his mother full blooded Milasian.
I think as a character, Cuchulain far out shines the other heros. Finn and Lugh are great, but Cuchulain stands on a mountain above them all.
Ulliam, this post was not meant to attack your view personally, I just compared Cuchulain & Finn because he was the only other one to be mention.
Let the debate continue -
-
Re: Who's the best
Wed, April 27, 2005 - 7:22 PMNo offense taken Tim. I agree on many of your points - however I do not recall Cu as ever having been a defender of Ireland so much as he was a defender of Ulster. Also if you recall I was taken with Finn not as the greatest fighter in Irish history. That is undoubtedly Cuchulain's territory. My defintion of greatest hero concerning Finn is as a cultural hero. He was not only a hero in battle and a great leader of men, but in the arts of love, poetry, and seership as well he was master as well. -
-
Re: Who's the best
Wed, April 27, 2005 - 9:01 PMHOever CuChulain was also a poet as was illustrated when he spoke in code to Emer during the couring of Emer. -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 12:23 PMYes, but to my knowledge there was a basic knowledge base taught to the youth of the time in Ireland. Since the druids did the teaching its not surprising that basic skills were learned. After all, how else did they replenish their ranks? It was not just a function of lineage but also of aptitude. And the best way to do that is have an educational system. And as I recall Cu was nobility he was certain to recieve a better education in that respect. -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 12:57 PMWell interestingly he was nobility, but he was actually trained by everyone. However in the note aobut the couring of emer, His chariotter did not know what he was talking about and his chariotter was very well educated, as is illustrated at the fights when Cuchulain asks his chariotter about each of the fighters. I like to think that Cuchulain was blessed with poets tounge. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 2:18 PMThis brings up an intresting point. Is someone a better Hero simply because they have more cultural? If that was the case we shouldn't be talking about either of these two.
Lugh the Sun God was the MOST culturaled out of any character in the ancient Irish myths. He was an Ildanach. Jack of all trades,master of all. When questioned by the doorkeeper to enter Tara, the doorkeeper said everyone who enters must have a vauled skill. Lugh was a carpenter,smith,champion,harper,poet,Magician,physician,cup-bearer,and a brass smith. Not to mention that he lead the Tuatha against the Formorians and won.
Maeve and Ailli held a very grand court at the hill of Cruichan. So much so that it was said to even surpass Emain in splender and grace. For Poets and musicians, That the high face of the king of Connaght shone brightest for knowledge and wealth. Ogma, a hero of the Tuatha De Danna invented the written word for Ireland.
These all have contributed something great to the cultural, but does that make them better Heros? In my opinion no. A Hero to me is someone,when the chips are down and you need to win this fight or all is lost,who do you choose? Top to bottom,backwards and forwards, every day of the week and twice on sundays, I say Cuchulain. He was time greatest of his time or any other. I'm not saying that he was a dim witted oaf who killed and did nothing more. In fact he was raised by the very best that Emain had to offer. To be a cultured Hero, to be raised like a king for he was the king of Hero's.
Finn was a great Hero during his time too, but arguments can be made the Diarmuid or even Oisin were better. -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 3:00 PMVery interesting, this goes back to a common debate about the nature of the word hero, physical, mental, something more?
As you have said before, many hero's one champion.
I do belive when it comes to it the question at hand would be, who would be the champion of Erin, Like the Championship of Ulster but expanded.
Ohh and note, I actually like the idea that Oisin was probably better than his father as Fionn was better than his. Personally I have never like Diarmuid. -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 3:24 PMI've kind of equatted Cuchalain more wiht heroes such as Hercules, and Finn MuCumhal and the Fianna more with King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.
I've always been partial to Nuada of the Silver Hand -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 3:28 PMI can see your reasoning Culann.
Are you saying Nuada was the best or that you just happen to like him? -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 3:48 PMJust happen to like him, though the whole "Silver Hand" thing seems very Norse like with Tyr, except they solved the whole lost hand thing. I however didn't like how they just bumped him off as a footnote in later stories. No epic death scene, just like they went "Hey let's write a bunch of the heroes that die, and hey we haven't written anything recent about Nuada so let's add him to the list." -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 6:21 PMI think we are agreed on one thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless our preferences what we have in each case is a hero for one's time. Meaning what the challenges and events of the age called for we saw such a one or ones come forth. Personally, as much as I favor Finn and his Fianna I've no less love for each and every hero in any of the Irish cycles. It takes alot to put yourself on the line for a cause greater than oneself. And these folk never flinched... -
-
Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 6:59 PMYeah,
It's one of those topics they have in sports all the time. Like can the '72 Dolphins go undefeated in todays game. Or who's the better fighter in their prime, Ali or Tyson. Or can Babe Ruth stand up to todays pitching. All are impossible to ever happen, but it is the debate that makes it fun. You take the facts of the indviduals involved, their deeds, their personalities and the circmstances of the times under which they operated and begin to compare and contrast them. Their was never a question of them being Heros or legends in their own time, it was more of who is the best of all time. -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 7:10 PMTrue enough. But what I think is we won't be able to get beyond one fact. And its one I agree with. The Druids predicted Cuchulain's name would never die. And it hasn't and won't. People who have never heard of Finn have heard of Cuchulain. I know that was the case when I was a kid and that is still the case today. So by notoriety alone one could say Cuchulain was the greatest hero in Irish history.
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 7:28 PMYou boys are SO cute, when you all debating ;)
Great thread! -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 7:39 PM::giggles::
Boy's hmmmm...
Ohh and dont act like you don't have a strong opinion Mrs. Evie.
-
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 7:42 PM"People who have never heard of Finn have heard of Cuchulain."
Funny, I learned all about fionn YEARS before I ever heard the name Cuchulain -
-
Unsu...
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 7:54 PMTara.. I AM a Scorpio after all.. BUT I only use my stinger when I have to ;) -
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 8:54 PMLiar liar, she sometimes uses her stinger just cause she likes too.
Finn and Cuchulain are different types of heroes and both of the notoriety. when any one starts learning about Irish or Celtic Myths they are two of the first names that appear. My favorite stories however come from the Fianna,
-
-
-
-
Re: Who's the best
Thu, April 28, 2005 - 7:40 PMSo if you could fight any irish hero....Ohh wait...wrong thread.....different movie ;-)...
In all truth, good point.
-
-
-
Re: Who's the best
Wed, August 31, 2005 - 10:45 PMNuada was slain in the second battle of Magh Tuiredh. He returned to Tír na nÓg as a true warrior and Árd Rígh of the gods. Nuada is a God of the first function and the patron of rulers and warriors.
Be very careful trying to get the Celtic Gods to "fit in" a comparison with the Teutonic-Norse Gods. Yes, there are connections, but identifying one with another is a precarious path.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
